Will Koi Eat a Dead Koi? - New Injury

[Julles]

I've had another death in the pond.  This time a large silver koi with those huge Deutch scales.  No signs of illness or distress, perfectly fine the day before.

The fish had been dead probably most of a full day when I found him.  His stomach had been cut open and some innards eaten.

Question:  Do you think it was the other fish who did this?

The thing is, the cut looked deep and smooth, and not what I would envision being done by fish pecking away at the dead fish with their mouths.  The pond is mostly covered with chicken wire, so I doubt that a bird or mammal got to the fish - also, there were no marks on the top of the fish, only his stomach.

The only other possibility is a turtle, which could make a clean sharp cut in the belly.  But to my knowledge, there are no turtles in the koi pond.  Even so, I can't imagine a turtle attacking and killing with one bite a strong 14" koi.

One fish has died of dropsy.

Now two have up and died suddenly of unexplained causes.

Starting to get upset.

[KatFish]

I have no answers for you, but I'd agree that it's not another fish.... sorry for the losses  :'(

[miguynmkoi]

I do know that fish will eat dead fish if it were in the water for a while.  How your fish got a slice cut I can't imagine.  Sorry you are finding sick fish.

[KatFish]

Oh, definitely - I meant that the slice didn't come from pecking.  I've seen that in my cichlid tanks 

[tlc]

I'm a newbie here so pardon me for butting in here. I would wonder if the fish caught it's underside on something in the pond like around your pump or filter perhaps? Maybe a zip-tie or hose clamp?
Sorry you lost your fish

[Kittyzee]

Of course they will.  But pretty sure that they didn't slice him open to begin with.  Start searching for sharp edges EVERYWHERE.

[Indiana Karen]

I would be inclined to think turtle.
We had a snapping turtle a couple years ago and it split large koi in half. :'(

[PondJoy]

I'm so sorry this is happening to you.....   :'(   Wish I had some answers.

[Julles]

Thanks for the replies.

Yesterday I noticed ANOTHER fish with a bad abraisian / cut.

This time it COULD be caused by getting caught and rubbing against something rough.  But I am leaning more and more towards a turtle.  I do have turtles in an enclosure nearby, and possibly one escaped and got into the koi pond.

The new injury is a round blemish about 1/2" round, maybe a tad larger.  The scales are rubbed off, and there is damage to the tissue beneath; it looks fairly deep, although there is no blood.  The fish is swimming and eating and appears OK, but I'm going to try to catch him and get him into some saltwater.

It is on the flat side of the fish, so it's hard to envision a turtle getting a bite out of that area.  A turtle would need an edge or corner to get a bite into.  I also don't see why a turtle would go after large koi, when there are smaller, bite sized, slow moving fan tails much easier to catch.

Nonetheless, I'm worried that it's a turtle.  Am planning to break the whole pond down Saturday and go huntin' for whatever is attacking my fish.

[marla]

Julles, are your fish spawning???  Just asked as you are in a warmer area.  If so they may be spawning injuries, they can get pretty aggressive during the spawn and if you have rocks in the pond they can easily become banged up.

[Julles]

That's a point, Marla.  The females are getting fat, but don't appear quite fat enough yet.    I have not observed any spawning behavior as of yet.  But you never know what they do when you're not looking!   

If I empty the pond on Saturday, as I am thinking of doing, to find the turtle, the change of water and temp shock has, in the past, caused them to go into spawn the next day. 

[turtlemike]

Sounds like a snapping turtle to me. They wander on land quite a bit looking for places to lay eggs and find new ponds to live in.  I have lots of big sliders but I don't have any koi. my sliders don't chase my shiners or fat head minnows but will eat a dead one.   But snappers are ambushers.  they bury themselves and will bite anything that gets close enough and isn't fast enough to get away.     If you have a turtle they will leave turtle head shaped bite marks in your lily leaves. and your fish.         they leave a pretty smooth edged triangular bite but you might see torn skin and scales to either side of the bite where the turtle used its claws to tear the bite out of the fish. they always use there claws this way especially on big prey.

[Julles]

That pretty well describes the mark on my dead silver koi, Mike. 

I was going to tear the whole pond down yesterday and look for a turtle, but we had "weather" coming in, and I decided to put it off.  Didn't want to get half way through and then be forced indoors by a storm.

Now I'll have to wait a while until I get another day when I can devote to draining and cleaning and refilling it.   

[turtlemike]

Why not put your koi in a tub or small pool and set a turtle trap to catch the turtle. It might be less work unless you want to overhaul the pond anyway.   A friend of mine made a box trap to rid her half acre pond of snappers because they were eating her lilies so bad they couldn't get ahead of the turtles.    It's basically a wood framed box with, I think 1 in. dia. chicken wire for walls about 2 ft. long and as wide as any turtle you want to trap. I think that all she had was an inward swinging door hinged at the top that couldn't open outwards. This was propped up with a stick and weighted so it would just sink. That way it won't come down hard on the turtles back and scare it as it crawls to the bait tied at the other end of the box. The turtle knocks down the supporting stick and the door slowly closes behind him.   Make SURE you secure the trap well with the bait end slanting up and extending ABOVE THE WATER or the turtle will DROWN.   Make sure it cant move into deeper water with a struggling turtle rocking the cage trying to get out.   I would say to bait it with chicken or liver.    Oh yea the trap worked for my friend and she said the snappers where delicious.