Author Topic: pond maintenance question  (Read 2452 times)

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Offline andi_mn

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pond maintenance question
« on: March 25, 2009, 11:21:34 AM »
hi all,
well...before it started snowing and got cold again we started our spring pond cleanup. the pond is pumped out but this year there are so many leaves remaining on the rocks that i havent a clue as to how to get them out. we will prob start using a net next fall but for now have a real mess. wondering how many of you use a pond vac?   they are fairly expensive but if worth it to help pond maintenance i would get one. i am in minnesota south of minneapolis and if anyone in the area wants free goldfish, give me a holler. oh, i so want spring and to see my fish outside again! andi

Offline jw

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2009, 11:36:03 AM »
So you have rocks in the bottom of your pond which makes it hard to just skim out the gunk eh? I guess I'm glad I didn't put them in the bottom of my pond. I just drained my pond almost all the way and there was tons of gunk. Prolly why half the fish died this winter. I left my fish in there while I drained it and then put clean water in and kept letting the water drain out also until the water was clear. Then I was able to skim out the stuff on the bottom. If I were you since you have the rocks I would invest in a vacuum. Don't know much about them as I don't have one. I would be afraid it would suck out my fish as I never take them out. Someone with more knowledge about this will surely answer soon. I've heard of people making their own vac somehow using the water pressure from a hose hooked up to some kind of homemade gadget. Lot's of luck to ya.
                                                         Janice

Offline miller

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2009, 12:06:28 PM »
I have the pondovac 300 Ilove it !!!!! I dont have rocks in my pond just in my head. I dont know how I lived without it for so long .You may need to remove the rocks and completly clean it out .If you have to put the rocks back try to leave  lots of space between them so you can vac out the muck. I dont suggest putting the rocks in the bottom .They just trap all the muck .I vac my ponds once a week year around.

Offline jw

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2009, 12:39:33 PM »
Will the vac suck out the little fish?
                                                 Janice

Offline Esther

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2009, 01:31:19 PM »
Sure if they get in the way.

Offline andi_mn

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2009, 01:50:00 PM »
here in minnesota most of us  take our fish out during the winter. my pond freezes to the bottom and although some people use heaters and bubblers, a loss of power could be trouble so my fish are in the basement and the pond is just sitting empty until we get it cleaned. if we had it to do over prob wouldnt put rocks on the bottom but thats what we were told to do by our general contractor (we built it but they acted as a general and did the pump hookup for us) ah, the learning experience. am going to look up the pond vac spec and cost. thanks, andi

Offline jw

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2009, 02:24:41 PM »
Well I guess I'm not getting a pond vac as I don't want my fish sucked up and killed. I will just do it the way I've been doing it just more often.
                               Janice

Offline Loritx

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2009, 03:48:55 PM »
I have a fairly small pond/stream, about 400 gal total. I also have Large River rock(3-4in) on the bottom. I use this ShopVac to clean the bottom and drain water.  It holds 16 Gallon then as it fills it is pumping water out a garden hose- I have it go straight to the garden and flowerbeds. Once in a while It gets full and I have to wait a few minutes to pump out the remaining water. Its really good for getting the leaves and muck from the skimmer.

Yes I have sucked a Goldfish up. ::) He was about 5inches long-when I was cleaning out the ShopVac he was Happily Swimming arround in it!!! Yes he is still ALIVE and that was last fall!!! o(  I dont remove the fish as I clean and have not lost any of them yet!! Just have a good DeClor to put in when you add fresh water.

Shop-Vac
16-Gallon 5.75 Peak HP Pump Wet/Dry Shop Vac

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=195953-20097-9341611&lpage=none
Lori TX

Offline Kris

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2009, 04:23:03 PM »
I have a Pondovac III & I love it!  Yes, it would suck up little fish, but it doesn't kill them.  I have rather unfortunately sucked up a little frog & boy was she NOT happy with me! >:(-  She hopped away from the discharge tub & I had to go & pick her up & put her in my lotus pit where I don't vacuum.  I didn't know that frogs could give dirty looks, but they sure can! 

Offline jw

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2009, 05:50:08 PM »
Well it's nice to know that it doesn't hurt them. We have a shop vac but it's old and I will have to ask D/H if it will work. I wonder if I can attach a hose to it. Have never had to add dechlor to the pond water as it is very good well water. I'll check out that Pondovac III also as it may be just the thing for me. Usually the fish stay away from whatever I'm doing in the pond but sometimes if I'm in there wading around trying to do cleanup they are sucking at my toes and legs. I heard not too long ago that somebody had a set up where they were charging money to allow people to put their feet in a big pot with goldfish in it as they supposedly exfoliate the dead skin. They got shut down due to health standards. Nice try tho!  O0

Offline Dkoinut

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2009, 05:56:45 PM »
Hi Andi. If you'd like another option, consider a bottom drain that goes from the pond to a 55 gallon waste barrel or settling chamber. These plus the pipe, fittings, and pipe cement will cost aproximately $100. I'd also get the rock off the pond bottom to keep wastes and leaves from poisoning the pond. I'd also keep the shop vac away from the pond. Water and electricity are a deadly combination and an accident waiting to happen.

Offline KatFish

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2009, 09:25:43 AM »
I use a shopvac all the time.  Just keep the cord dry!

Offline Master Pond Builder

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2009, 01:18:48 PM »
The best way to get them out is by hand. Pond vacs in a gravel pond are a use-less waste of money. When you do a spring cleanout drain the pond, remove the fish, remove all sticks and leaves, then powerwash the pond to remove any built up algae on your rocks and gravel. Also clean all of your skimmer, and pond filter pads. Fill up your pond, Use chlorine detox to remove chlorine from your tap water. Wait untill the following day to put your fish back into your pond. You have to get all of the leaves out of your pond. If not bacteria will have to break them down, on top of trying to break down your fish waste in your pond. This is not a good way to start off the season as you will have algae blooms from the excess nutrition in your pond water.
I am blessed, that I get to work outside and build beautiful ponds, waterfalls, and streams, everyday.
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Offline crazyfishlady

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009, 01:38:22 PM »
I also have river rock in my pond; I am willing to put up with the extra hassle because I like the look. I pick the leaves out of the streams by hand, but it's too cold to get in the pond now. I have a very fine long handled net that I use to move the rocks around on the bottom and get up the leaves and the muck. When you disturb the muck it floats up a little and you can then scoop it out. It really works pretty well.
Dianne,
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Offline Master Pond Builder

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2009, 01:50:36 PM »
[quote author=Dkoinut
Hi Andi. If you'd like another option, consider a bottom drain that goes from the pond to a 55 gallon waste barrel or settling chamber. These plus the pipe, fittings, and pipe cement will cost aproximately $100. I'd also get the rock off the pond bottom to keep wastes and leaves from poisoning the pond. I'd also keep the shop vac away from the pond. Water and electricity are a deadly combination and an accident waiting to happen.

Are you crazy!  Adding a bottom drain on an existing liner pond would be pond suicide for this guy. Number one once you remove all of the rock and gravel, which by the way provides a huge amount of surface area for bacteria to colonize, thus breaking down that black sludge that normally sits at the bottom of slick bottom ponds. Not to mention it also protects the pond liner from UV damage, and just makes the pond look 100% better and more natural. Now lets say you get all of the gravel and rock out of your pond. Now you have a wet dirty liner that will have to be cleaned and dried perfectly so you can get a good seal around your new bottom drain. Otherwise it's going to leak like crazy. Not to mention before you do this you are going to have to totally remove your liner and re-excavate the pond to install your plumbing line to your bottom drain, so you don't see it. You are also going to have to make sure everything in your pond slopes to the bottom drain so it can remove fish waste. The problem you face then is folds in your liner. This is going to act as a dam not allowing your fish waste to go anywhere. So basicly what you end up with is an ugly un-natural looking pond that has a good chance of leaking from the bottom drain, thats less funtional from a biological stand point than it was to begin with. Not to mention all the wasted labor that has to go into doing something like this. Bottom drains are fine in cement swimming pool ponds and thats about it, and i'm still not a big fan of them.
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Offline Dkoinut

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #15 on: March 27, 2009, 06:55:22 PM »
Hi MP Builder.   Not to hurt your feelings but I think you are an ameture. I'll agree that if you have an existing pond you may have problems installing a bottom drain, but only if you've cut off too much liner or didn't leave a proper amount of liner for your planned coping. There should be no algae growing under your gravel, and if you know how to properly clean it the liner will be fine and will seal properly, if clean and dry. Try a scotchbrite pad for cleaning the liner. If you'd like to learn about bottom drains try contacting the manufacturers and dealers. Over the years I've installed3 and 4 inch bootton drains in past and current ponds and have also done diy bottom drains and other plumbing thru my liners and have never had a leak. Ther is some anxiety associated with putting a hole in a new, existing and perfectly good liner, but once it's been done according to the instructions successfully, it's not a problem. Take a look at this link and it should help you. http://www.koiphen.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55540
« Last Edit: March 27, 2009, 08:12:47 PM by Dkoinut »

Offline Sean

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #16 on: March 27, 2009, 07:35:38 PM »
PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NEVER TOLERATED HERE!!!
EDIT YOUR POSTS OR BE BANNED.
Cross Forum Banter is not permissible, now or ever...

Sean
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Offline Sonny

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #17 on: March 27, 2009, 07:51:57 PM »
PERSONAL ATTACKS ARE NEVER TOLERATED HERE!!!
EDIT YOUR POST OR BE BANNED.
Cross Forum Banter is not permissible, now or ever...

Sean
A link to koiphen was posted, that's all.  I thought koiphen was our sister friend that we respect.  And it didn't seem to me like "cross-forum banter".  I've never seen "Master Pond Builder" post on koiphen actually (not under that name any way).

I must admit I sometimes get confused when the whip comes down here on AP  :whip:  A gentle reminder seems more appropriate in this case.   O0
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Offline LeeAnne151

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2009, 09:45:35 AM »
Sonny, The post was edited and the personal attack mostly removed. Thank you, Sean!

There is no reason to call someone names or be insulting just because you disagree with them.

The rocks/no rocks debate will never go away.....Personally, I love my rocks and don't do any special cleaning. After 12 years I'm still waiting for death gasses to kill all my fish....


We've had problems with fights from other forums continuing on to this one. Sean likely mentioned cross forum banter because of that.....I'm not registered with Koiphen so I can't read that thread but perhaps there is an argument on it?
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Offline Sonny

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2009, 02:03:49 PM »
Sonny, The post was edited and the personal attack mostly removed. Thank you, Sean!

There is no reason to call someone names or be insulting just because you disagree with them.

The rocks/no rocks debate will never go away.....Personally, I love my rocks and don't do any special cleaning. After 12 years I'm still waiting for death gasses to kill all my fish....


We've had problems with fights from other forums continuing on to this one. Sean likely mentioned cross forum banter because of that.....I'm not registered with Koiphen so I can't read that thread but perhaps there is an argument on it?


I see.  Guess I missed the insulting part.  Without the context it is hard to understand what the problem was and to me it seemed like the transgression was linking to a post on koiphen.  To be honest I'm still not sure if that was a problem or not.

I must say though that these kinds of reprimands are rather intimidating.   :(

Regardless, I apologize for my post.
Jim

Offline Sean

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2009, 03:15:22 PM »
Something for everyone to ponder...

This forum was set up to be educational and fun for everyone. Calling some out out and personal attacks will not be tolerated. If you have a problem with this, perhaps American Ponders is not the right place for you. Re-Read the Registration Agreement that everyone was required to accept prior to becoming a member here, it has not ever changed. Many people violate this agreement often, that is not acceptable. You can make your point and disagree without being offensive and spiteful. Back yourself up with facts, you do not need to resort to name calling or making unfounded comments about someone you do not know.

As the season heats up and more people return to the forum, conversations will likely get heated as well. Remember to think about your post. There is nothing wrong with providing the facts to show someone they may likely be wrong. Just keep the assumptions and attacks to yourself. If you feel it necessary to be nasty, either email the person or send a private message.

Thanks
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Offline Dkoinut

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2009, 05:53:21 PM »
Sean- I think you're riding a "dead horse". I admitted being upset and changed the post. And  "master pond builder" hasn't been back to discus things further. I didn't see where you jumped him for calling me crazy. I also agree that these forums are supposed to be fun and educational, and that was my point and the only reason I post on this or any forum. I have nothing against rock bottoms on ponds if that's what people want and they do look nice. I am against incorrect, bad, or fictional information. There was no argument on the Koiphen link either. Just educational information on installation of a bottom drain with excellent photos. Epdm pond liner under water or above will not degrade due to UV from the sun, and algae does not grow under gravel on a pond bottom. Pond liner had a 25 year warranty last I heard. Pond bottom can be flat, a taper is not required for a bottom drain to work and a 4 inch drain will keep a 5 to 6 foot radius area of the bottom clean and if you use a air manifold you can increase that to a 10 foot radius. The sealer or glue goes under the liner along the edge of the bottom drain on the flange. It is less than 2 inches wide and cleaning the small section of liner used or new shouldn't be a problem. Then the sealing ring goes over the liner and it has holes that line up with the holes in the flange I use a finish nail to locate 2 opposing holes where the screws secure it to the bottom drain. The photos on the link show everything clearly for anyone needing the information. I apologize for making this so long, and hope it's helpful.

Offline Sean

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2009, 08:32:23 PM »
You know what, I hate feeling like I need to hold hands and wag my finger. It makes it crappy for me to enjoy myself here also. I don't get paid to be a babysitter...

Get a grip, follow the rules you agreed to and play nice, this is for EVERYONE.

If you cant play nice here, go away and find a new playground. There are over a thousand members here and I will not see a small handful ruin it for everyone else.

Capiche.

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Offline Jerry

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Re: pond maintenance question
« Reply #23 on: March 29, 2009, 08:45:00 AM »
Sonny, not nearly as intimidating as being called names.  I was a few years ago and over what?
A basketball game!  Can you believe it?  I can't even repeat the names here.

So, we make a choice.  We keep this place warm and hospitable or we let the cretins run rampant.

I assure you the guy that was so nasty to me would never say those things face to face.
The cloak of anonymity makes cowards brave.
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