Sad UPDATE!!!! Must be the Great Easter Heron!!

[Loritx]

UPDATE
Looks like he came back early this morning.   :'(  I still have the 3 larger fish (2 of my original 14inch Koi and 1 12inch Catfish) 1 Comet and 1 shubunkin Mutt(that was born last yr). He got his belly full on 5 large Comets, 6 Shubunkins.  :'( 
I now know my pond will never be safe again!!!


As I was sitting in my livingroom watching TV, I saw a strange shadow on the roof next door. It was the shadow of the peak of my roof on the side of the neighbors roof. With the outline of a Heron - I thought I was seeing things, then the shadow moved. So I bolted for my Camera and as I ran into the back yard it was trying to land. It swooped out of my back yard and to the neighbors roof!!!!  He is a SKINNY looking Heron! He didnt look very healthy. Most the ones I have seen arround here are pretty plump.





Right now my fish dont have much cover other than the PVC pipe - as you can see the 2 big Koi and the big Catfish are in the pipe!!! The little fish have not delt with the Great Heron yet!!

[Kat]

I've startled a heron before & it went to stand on the neighbors roof trying to wait me out to come back & eat.  Hope you can keep that beast away from your fish.  Have you thought about hanging some compact discs out so they flash in the light?  Or adding some other type of plastic pipe, cinder blocks, clay pots with the bottom knocked out so they can swim thru?   Keeping my fingers crossed & will do so for you, too, that the herons stay away.

[marla]

Wow I had the same Easter Visitor at my house this morning, but I'm thinking maybe a more mature male by all the fancy plumage it had.....I added extra stones around both ponds today...kind of uneasy about leaving for vacation now on Thurs. I'll have to tell the boy that is coming in to feed the cats to check the nets daily.  This one came back again in the afternoon, but didn't land probably saw me out there.

[miguynmkoi]

   Fly away bird!   Shoo!!!  Netting works very well for my ponds.  Double nets are better!  Hope your fishies are all safe from the Easter visitor.

[Bullfrog]

[Loritx]

I couldnt shoot them!!!!  I am the one who goes down to the lake and chases them with my Camera - so I think its just payback!!! Karma - what goes arround, comes arround!!!!

Kat - I am not far from Lewisville Lake, so not much can be done other than to provide shelter. They all can fit in the PVC pipe I have in the pond.

Marla - that heron looks well fed!!!! the one that was here looked thin and the feathers were all ruffled up.

I have 3 dogs so that heron had to be Very hungry to try here!!!!

[Bullfrog]

My wife is a serious animal lover and I brought this very topic up yesterday about cranes trying to eat our fish when the pond goes in. Of course she was against my shooting them but if they are eating our fish well too bad, so sad for that predator. It is a predator, just a pretty one. I'd no sooner let a crane eat our fish than tolerate coyotes killing my pets. I told her it's like a rat getting into the house, sometime you have to control things, in my opinion.

[turtlemike]

I don't have koi and I don't mind herons but I had an idea while reading this thread that might help some people that have trees, buildings, or tall fences near and surrounding there water gardens.   Herons have a 6 or 7 ft. wingspan and I imagine that you could run a network of 20 lb. test fishing line from the eave of your house say to an out building or high fence or trees etc. leaving 3 to 4 ft. between lines.  It seems like the fishing line overhead would be almost invisible to people from below and herons from above and wouldn't bother anyone's aesthetics.  And can you imagine the wreck  the heron would have trying to land through that.!!!  It might even help keep them out of others gardens just by training the herons who fly along looking down on peoples koi to think twice about trying to land in a place that looks like that.   At least I bet they wont come back to yours!!    I can also imagine a badly entangled heron, or other birds running into the lines so if nobody is home a lot during the day that's willing and able to run out to cut lines or grab a thrashing 4 ft. tall bird to untangle it you might want to think twice about it. I would love to grab a heron just to get a close look at one , and some pics.  But I certainly wouldn't want to hurt one.   I think that not interweaving the lines, but running them first one way and  laying the lines that run perpendicular to them on top would minimize entanglement allowing the heron to more easily fall through the stretchy monofilament line.  

[jw]

I've heard that if you get one of those realistic looking statues of the Heron and move it around often it helps to keep them away. I guess they are supposed to be very territorial and if one is at a pond nobody else is allowed till he gets done. I haven't tried it but I see them around here next to peoples ponds. I hate to have to put the net up but if all else fails I will. I would never shoot or hurt one tho. They are just trying to survive like the rest of us. Live and let live and let nature be your teacher...........respect the lives of your fellow creatures.

[Bullfrog]

I've heard that if you get one of those realistic looking statues of the Heron and move it around often it helps to keep them away. I guess they are supposed to be very territorial and if one is at a pond nobody else is allowed till he gets done. I haven't tried it but I see them around here next to peoples ponds. I hate to have to put the net up but if all else fails I will. I would never shoot or hurt one tho. They are just trying to survive like the rest of us. Live and let live and let nature be your teacher...........respect the lives of your fellow creatures.

I do respect your opinion but fellow creatures include all kinds of undesireable, nuisance and some even dangerous animals. We love animals and have 4 dogs, 4 cats and a big lizard. I witnessed a Pitt Bull kill a neighbor's cat. The dog catcher took it to the pound but she got it out immediately. It kept getting loose and mauled two of my neighbor's small dogs and killed another cat. It was in my garbage and it got aggressive with me when I tried to run it off. I love dogs but I would have killed this one without batting an eye. We love our cats but they love being outside. After I called the dog catcher I actually witnessed him taking this vicious dog back home and simply put him back in her house! No wonder he kept getting out and killing other pets.

I know there is a far stretch between a Pitt Bull and a Heron but I will consider our fish our pets. Some animals need to be controlled in my opinion.I would no more put up with a water moccasin in my pond, there are a lot of woods behind our house.

As far as a 6 foot wingspan, there are several species of cranes around here and some are smaller. I'll try the statue first, for sure.

[jw]

Ok so we will agree to disagree. As for the Pitbull that is a totally different subject. The Heron is just trying to live. The Pitbull either has a bad temperament or the owner is a whacko that let it get that way. I agree with you that the dog should be destroyed. I don't like to see these things happen but nothing else you can do with a dog like that. It is up to us humans to protect our property from the wild animals that lived here way before us. We can't go around destroying everything just cause it gets in our way. Well I guess we can but we shouldn't IMHO just because we are bigger and stronger and have big guns! Peace Bro!
                                                                     

[Loritx]

So far all fish are there!!  I am thinking on stringing fishing line across the pond when we go on vacation.  Even though my Daughter will be here with the dogs. She works nights and sleeps days, so I cant count on even the dogs being outside during the day(they would rather be sleeping with her).

[Bullfrog]

JW, we do agree to disagree on this one. Granted, there is a big difference between a Pitt Bull and a Heron, but I said that. I was just making a point that I love animals, dogs in particular, but I'd have no problem protecting my pets by taking lethal force against one like this. We found mother rat with babies in our garage. I didn't kill the babies, just dumped them over the fence in the woods, they were old enough to survive or my wife would have raised them. 

I would, however kill a rat or a mouse in my house though. I read about a person that was letting her pet Yorkie use the bathroom in the front yard one evening and an owl scooped it up. Nature can be very unforgiving and so can I when it comes to pests. If I go to all of the trouble to dig and stock a pond, I won't let a crane clean me out. Like I said, I'll try the crane statue first though.

As far as fishing line, a bird could become entangled in this and die a slow and painfull death. I can't see putting nets over my pond but that's just me. I respect everyone's opinion here, we won't always aggree but we always remain civil. I certainly don't want to cross swords over a bird. 

[jw]

I'm not mad at you Bullfrog but I like your wife's attitude on the subject much better. We are allowed to disagree and we don't want to throw any punches over it. I just believe what I believe and you believe what you believe. We can discuss it tho. I will try anything I can to discourage Mr Heron from visiting my pond but I will never ever kill him just for him thinking that it was so very nice of God to plant all these lovely stocked ponds of fish just for him. I mean you have to admit it is a great temptation to him and that's prolly what he thinks. I am glad to hear about the rat and babies that you dumped over the fence. I would do the same. I really don't want to put nets over my pond either. I will try other things first. I hear the birds won't go into a pond with depth to it as they like to stand on the shallow sides and wait patiently. So I have put plenty of shrubs and a short fence around mine and am planning to put some big pots w/ plants on the one side where I can't really plant anything in the ground. Maybe one could string the fish line around the sides of the pond on skinny poles so the bird can't easily reach into the pond. You could leave an opening for entering the pond somewhere for maintaining it easily. Just some ideas anyway. If you end up having to kill the bird I will try to avoid reading about it. I respect your opinion also and won't hold it against you.
                                                                             

[Bullfrog]

I would do anything I could to avoid killing a bird, we feed them and have several feeders all over our yard. We saw an unusual one a few years ago and I went and got the binoculars, I have several pair. We had never seen one like it, it was orange and black. As we watched through the binoculars it occured to me and I said "Oh! we're frigging bird watchers!" I bought her an Audobon Society identification book and it was an Orchard Oriole, it likes the hummingbird feeder.

We still are doing the finishing touches on the house from hurricane damage from Ike, then I can start the pond so we don't have any herons yet. I will dig a shelf along the side and plant a lot of plants so they don't have the shallows to wade in. I see them all of the time when I'm fishing from my kayak and they are very efficient hunters.

[Julles]

Lori, don't know how large your pond is, but what I've done is to make rectangular frames out of PVC pipe, then cover them with chicken wire fencing.  Spray painted everything black, so it's not tooo darned noticable. 

My pond is only 3' wide, so several sets of frames 4' wide of about 1" PVC are large enough to cover most of the pond, while being light enough to move when need be.   Doesn't look bad, but not gorgeous, either - but definately better than finding scales and fins all over the bank or strewn about the yard.

[Bullfrog]

It was just a matter of time. This critter has staked out your pond as his new feeding ground and will be back. I seemed to upset some people when I mentioned shooting it and being done with it but sometime you have to control nature and protect your pets. I mentioned a person whose Yorkie was scooped up by an owl right in front of them in their front yard. Imagine this, the painfull shreiking of their pet as this predator flew away to eat it, as hard and as unpleasant that may be to digest. Say she had another Yorkie that she also dearly loved and now this owl is perched in her tree every evening, seeing it as it's new feeding ground. I'd kill the owl and yes, I do love hearing them in the woods.

This bird will be back. I love animals of all kinds but just because one is beautifull shoudn't give it a free pass to eat your fish. A tiger is beautifull as well but
I wouldn't want one eyeing my kids in my yard. Life should not be held in greater regard because an animal is more attractive than onther one. We kill spiders without a thought, allthough there are only two species to fear in America.

Rats and mice, snakes and other destructive and dangerous animals are all killed when they enter our property and should be. You wouldn't tolerate a water moccasin in your pond and their main diet is fish. I love birds but in this case I'd dispatch the bird with a pellet and be done with it, this one is a predator. People may not agreee with me and I expect that. I'm not cruel, just a realist.

My wife hates Palin because she supports the killing of wolves. Alaska has experts on animal population and the studies have shown that the wolf population is out of proportion there. If their numbers aren't brought into control by the only predator that can prey on them, man, they will starve. I love wolves also, we have statues of them in our house but there are times when this is neccesary. The only predator in Texas that can take down a deer is a cougar. Being as they were hunted almost to extinction, the deer would also overpopulate and starve in Texas if not for hunting.

There is a time for all things under the sun, a time tio kill, a time to heal.

[Loritx]

I knew it would be back!! 
I personaly wouldnt try to hurt the Heron!  I will just look for ways to scare him away!! So much of animal habitats have been taken away, I kind of feel sorry for it!

My mom lost 2 pomerainans to a Cougar and her cub a few years ago. They lived in Reno NV.  So much new constrution in the nearby hills drove them down to find Food.  She put the dogs out at dawn to go potty and a few minutes later - no dogs, no blood. There were Cougar tracks along the back fence. The game warden said they were probably stalking the dogs for some time!!

My pond is not very large and I dont want to cover it. So maybe I will just concentrate on plants for a while.

My orange Butterfly Koi has a few scales missing, no punctures that I can tell. The other Koi he was wounded last time a heron visited, but he looks ok today.
another Comet showed up, now have 2 of them - was probably in the skimmer, it is missing a few scales but looks like it will be ok.
The shubunkin mutt seems fine and the Catfish rarely comes out of the pvc pipe is fine!

[turtlemike]

I agree with everybody basically.  I think Bullfrog is just arguing a point and would do everything to avoid killing just about anything except some water moccasins and mosquitoes etc and so would I.   If you look at the picture of the gun that Bullfrog posted that got this started you will notice that it is a pump pellet gun. this means that you can pump it just one time and it will just ruffle some feathers and startle the big bird and bounce off. I think this is what he meant to be saying.               I know what I'm talking about because I used to have a gun just like it.  A neighbor had given me some new chickens and a rooster and I turned them loose with the other chickens.  Well this rooster decided to roost at night, not in the coop with the other chickens, but in a tree branch just outside my bedroom window.  Now I get up very early anyway and don't mind the rooster waking me up at the crack of dawn but THIS rooster would crow every night at about three o'clock.  Well that got old really fast!    He was a white rooster and i could see him clearly at night from my bed so I took my pellet gun and right when he started to crow I shot him. Well to make a long funny story short I had that rooster trained not to crow at 3 in the morning.   Not only that, at any unwanted behavior,like getting on the porch etc. all I had to do was cock that gun and that sound would make the unwanted behavior stop with a cackle!!     Rooster fight?   Just cock that gun.  Fight over!!  I'm also concerned about my idea entangling a heron, but as a well watched experiment with a problem heron it might be worth trying.   I wouldn't want to risk it unattended, and even if unlikely to entangle it could still happen.  JW. Your idea about the line around the pond is actually my initial idea.  I've heard that will keep deer out of a garden, they bump into it but they cant see it and it scares them away.   But then again they could get entangled in that too.  O well just an idea.

[Bullfrog]

Thank you turtlemike As you said, it is a pump up pellet rifle and they make soft pellets that won't penetrate the skin. One or two pumps and it will sting like the dickens though. We bought two of them to train our dogs not to dig holes in the yard. I'd pop the Heron with a soft pellet and after a few times it should learn. The problem is you have to stake out the pond all day, but you could pull a much worse duty than that.

This thread has me thinking. My neighbor has two small pugs that are missing as of today. My wife drove around the neighborhood for a long time looking and the neighbor is still out looking. There is no hole where they dug under the fence and this is suspicious. We have some large Red tailed Hawks around here and I'm wondering if that's not what happened to them?

[jw]

Well I guess we all will do what we feel we have to do and I hope when we all get though doing it there will be some wild things still living out there or there will always be repercussions like the wolf situation. Prolly the reason the wolves need to be killed is because of something we humans did to unbalance the system in the first place. You have to admit we do go around unbalancing everything and wondering ..............wow how come we have too many of this or too little of that. I personally have just come to the realization that we need not kill everything that interferes with our lives. My husband is not of the same mind frame as I but he has come a long way. He no longer kills the spiders, he calls me and says " You better come and get your friend outta here or he's a goner"! Once we were in Arizona and there was this tarantula like spider crawling through the parking lot at a scenic viewing site underneath the cars and I was tracking it down with a piece of cardboard so as to rescue it. My husband stopped me from doing it as he was afraid the thing would jump up and bite me. Poor spider..........don't know what ever became of him. Hope he made it!
Really scary one was when we were in Florida or Louisiana.......can't quite remember which but there was this turtle that was on the road while we were driving and I saw that it couldn't get off the street cause the curb was too high. Made DH stop the car so I could get out and take it to the lake I could see off in the distance thorough the tall grasses. So he's waiting in the car while I do my civic duty and I'm wading through all this grass trying to hold onto this turtle. It's not easy to hold onto a squirming turtle..........take my word for it. Anyway so I start seeing these big flattened areas all of a sudden and the grass and vegetation is so high I can't see anything. After a few minutes of seeing this I realize ...........duh! I am in alligator country! I gave the turtle a toss into the grass and took off running! Anyway as you can see I am an animal nut............always have been and always will be. I think my mission in life is to save the ones I can and just pass the word on that it won't kill ya to have some pity on the poor buggers once in awhile. I do agree with Bullfrog in that there is a time unfortunately that you might have to kill an animal but I just think that it should be only when extremely necessary. If there is any other way I choose that way. So much for my 2 cents worth.

[Julles]

What are those pellets made of?  Do they decompose, or just stay in the ground forever?  If they are of lead, do they harm the environment?

[crichar1]

Use fishing line around and across the pond... He will be back for the rest!!!!!

[mascot]

I haven't read all the posts all the way through, and I'll be the first to admit that I've killed bugs, black widows, snakes, etc.  Usually, the reason for killing an animal or insect is because it poses a direct threat to me or my indoor pet.  As for the heron that has made itself a guest at the sushi hole in my back yard...I couldn't ever try to kill it because I feel that I'm the one that made the fish accessible to the heron.  If I had covered the pond with netting, or made it harder for the heron to get my fish, then perhaps he would have stayed down by the lake that is just over the hill.

Rocky is an indoor pet, and as such, any threat to him is taken more seriously - not because my fish are less important, but because of the measure's I've taken to keep Rocky safe from harm.  Fish is a natural diet for a heron, therefore I can't blame the heron for seeing my fish and helping himself to them...you can't reason with an animal in that manner.  But the issue about a pit bull attacking/mauling other dogs?  I can't accept that because a chihuahua is not a natural diet for a pit bull.  To me, there's a huge difference between a pit bull attacking small dogs and a heron eating my wet pets.

I think we really should keep things in perspective, and while I'm not saying you should be okay with a heron taking your fish (they are still pets) I don't think that killing the heron would be justified.  If your fish are in an aquarium and the heron picks the lock to your back door and comes inside to feed on the fish...blast away!  I don't like it that the heron got my favorite fish, but I think it's more my own fault for not taking the precautions necessary.  It's not like there's a fly-thru diner that serves bait fish to the local heron population...they're just surviving is the way I see it. 

[Loritx]

I agree with you Blind'too!!  I just have to come up with something that will scare him away if he comes arround again!

I just have to come up with somthing safe as I do have 3 small dogs in the yard too. Oviously he was not scared of them and figured out what time they were not going to be out there!

I was thinking of a rope strung between something (not sure what I will use) with some bells on it. Maybe make it look kind of nautical...like round posts or something.

[casey]

I draw the line at nature in my house, which is my territory and the place I am allowed to be in control of nature whether or not I feel personally threatened.  When I am outside, in nature's territory and nature's control, I am the interloper and not allowed to be in control by use of violence unless my life is threatened.  Those things that cross over, like cats & dogs, are the responsibility of the people that own them and should be controlled by those people, as I control my pets. 

[Bullfrog]

What are those pellets made of?  Do they decompose, or just stay in the ground forever?  If they are of lead, do they harm the environment?

The soft pellets are made of plastic and are brightly colored. My neighbors kids used to have BB gun wars with them.

This thread has stimulated a lot of viewpoints, everyone handles problems in a different way. My niece moved to california and Gophers were digging up her garden. She went to get some "gopher bombs" (don't ask me what they are) and everyone was aghast that she wanted to take action against the gophers. They were, after all, just doing what nature programmed them to do.

So is a shark or an alligator when it eats you. I kayak fish the salt marshes and could very well wind up as lunch but I am in that animals enviornment. I could just stay home or fish where there are no threats but the salt marshes are where the fish are.

I do love nature and all animals, birds included. But I will also protect my property which includes my yard. We have bird feeders out and enjoy watching them. A friend of mine went in with his dad and an uncle to build a new house to sell. They wound up keeping it but a woodpecker started drilling holes in their brand new cedar siding looking for bugs to eat. I love birds but you have to draw the line somewhere.

Crystal Beach is a very popular area near here. Families go there and picnic, lots of teens go there and hang out. Kids are out playing in the water and right down the beach you see men with fishing poles. They are catching and releasing sharks, the Gulf is really infested with them. The sharks are also just doing what nature intended them to do and the answer is easy, stay out of the water. This picture was taken on our beach just a week or so ago and as soon as it warms up, the kids will be back in the water.

[Kat]

Do what you can to provide shelter/protection for your fish.  Lots of people don't like the hassle but at least the fish are safer.  Here are the things I've read about doing to deter herons & please add your input.

1) netting over the pond
2) provide plenty of places for the fish to hide which includes large plastic pipes/cinder blocks/lots of plants/floating plant islands/pots along the side
3) deep water
4)  shiny flashes (like the sun shining off of an alligator's eye) are supposed to scare the herons away.  I'm doing this with dangling compact discs hung from shepard's hooks around the ponds
5)  motion activated water scarecrow
6)  heron decoys (not during mating season) that have to be moved daily
7)  fake floating alligators that should be moved around routinely
8 )  fencing around the perimeter that the heron could stumble on
9)  lots of plants around the banks of the pond
10)  string fishing line in various ways around the pond
11)  larger dogs that like to bark at moving objects
12)  be outside a lot
13) have a Super Blaster water gun pumped & ready to shoot at the bird (but the heron is usually quicker)
14) pellet gun within legal limits
15)  & if you read Stephen King & a great shot with a slingshot/silver bullets maybe you could defeat the beast 

[Bullfrog]

I have a history of being mauled by animals that I'm trying to rescue. Once, long ago I got all three kids into the back seat of our 68 Bug and my young son said, "Hey Dad, what's that?" I looked in out front yard and there was a very tiny baby opossum right by the corner of our house. Trotting toward the corner from the back yard was approaching our large tom cat. If the cat saw the baby opossum it would attack and eat it and this was going to happen right in front of the kids. I opened the door and bolted to the rescue. All three kids faces were plastered to the window watching this drama of life and death play out..

I made it just in the nick of time and grabbed the baby by it's tail and picked it up. Never do this. In the heat of the moment I forgot that they have a prehensile tail, they can actually hang upside down to reach food then curl back up, which is exactly what it did. It sunk it's needle sharp teeth into my finger and I screamed bloody murder. I couldn't throw it down because the cat would get it. The kids faces turned from sheer horror to maniacal laughter as I did the death dance around the front yard trying to get my finger loose.

More recently my wife was on the phone with her mother. She opened the door and our orange tabby came trotting in the door with a live mouse in it's mouth. She called out to me to get them out of the house. All I heard was something about "Mouse, House, cat" I thought she wanted me to get the mouse away from the cat, she just wanted them both out of the house. Again I ran to the rescue and managed to get the mouse out of the cats mouth. It bit me so hard it drew blood and I screamed bloody murder running toward the door. I couldn't throw it down because the cat wanted his mouse back. My wife, of course, laughed so hard she almost wet herself.

[Loritx]

15)  & if you read Stephen King & a great shot with a slingshot/silver bullets maybe you could defeat the beast 

How did you know I read Stephen King??   

I was kind of depressed and went out to clean the skimmer and prune some plants. I got a good surprise
I did find a couple of the Comets and 3 Shubunkins buried in the bottom of the skimmer - deep in the muck!!!  ALIVE!!

So now the total loss is 6 fish

Would you belive they went into MATING this morning!!!!! Survival mode kicked in!!!!