Author Topic: Introduction/need advice  (Read 2237 times)

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Offline whiskyb

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Introduction/need advice
« on: June 01, 2009, 09:40:22 AM »
Hi everyone, I have been lurking for abit now and only have a few posts. I figured I should introduce myself and my pond. My wife and I built this last year as a memorial to my father who had passed the previous winter. It gives great pride to sit out at night on the deck and reflect. But enough of that or I'll have tears on my keyboard. I have started planting now around the perimeter of my rock and lilies are starting to come out of their hibernation. One thing I would like is moss? growing on the stone. I only run the falls in the evening during the week and am-pm on weekends, The rest of the time their is a separate pump with a fountain for filtering. With the falls not being moist all the time it might be an issue with some plants but any suggestions would be great. I will try and attach two photos, first one being daytime during construction and the second one at night later on.

Thanks for any suggestions,

Whiskyb

Offline whiskyb

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2009, 09:41:36 AM »
Well at least I was able to get one of them to post! Lets try again on the first one

Offline Missa

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2009, 10:23:59 AM »
Beautiful ... How come you only run the waterfall nights & weekends?

Offline whiskyb

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2009, 10:57:50 AM »
I run the falls more so when we are around. Rest of the time it is a smaller pump which is still very suitable for filtering

Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2009, 11:23:46 AM »
Nice waterfall wall and pond!  I don't have any moss growing where I want it to but I think moss needs a moist cool environment.  If your pond is in any sun at its peak this may not be work.

If anything there are vines or other plants - water kind or not - that can be grown.  Some may even say algae grows well  ;D :D ;)

Offline PondJoy

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2009, 11:31:45 AM »
If I am understanding what you are saying, moss won't grow well there if it is wet sometimes and dry other times.  But maybe I'm not following you.

Offline Esther

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2009, 11:45:00 AM »
Very nice pond and waterfall. I gathered moss from around our property and laid it where I could see the rocks are always damp and it lives all summer even in the sun, but again it has to stay damp.

Offline whiskyb

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2009, 02:01:08 PM »
I do have a drip irrigation system that I may be able to incorporate and keep the moss damp. I like the vine idea as well as long as they keep their leaves in winter as I do not want to deal with more leaves than I have to.

Offline tinkster

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2009, 02:06:27 PM »
carlos I believe use to have pictures of how he stuck ferns in between the rocks on the waterfalls.. that was beautiful!

tink

Offline Julles

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2009, 02:41:33 PM »
Wow, what a falls!  I have been toying with the idea of getting some lights, and now I think I have decided - WILL be getting some!!

I think plants that adjust to living in a moist environment, like when your falls are on, would not survive during the periods the water is not running.  Their roots would dry out.  Plants adapt to one sort of environment, but can't switch back and forth between two extremes.  Which is exactly why the starts I recently put out in my beds are wilting - didn't water them today.

If I were you, I'd leave the falls on all the time.  Or go with artificial plants.

Having the falls on would greatly benefit your fish, by adding more oxygen.


Offline Kat

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2009, 03:11:21 PM »
Beautiful rockwork on the falls  O0 O0
Kat

There is never enough room for all of the water lilies that I want ;-)

Offline reddad35

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2009, 03:43:31 PM »
How about a mister when the falls are shut dawn. Hook it to a timer. Low power Low water and most of all the moss you wanted.


Beautiful pond build. I bet you find peace beside it and reflection comes with the sound of the water.

Offline whiskyb

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2009, 04:47:42 PM »
Thanks for the compliments, and I love the idea of a mister. I think it would be way better than my current drip system. Now how does one go about growing the moss, I have heard some replies about picking native stuff as it might bring disease and or other problems. Looked at my local nursery this afternoon and nothing, when I asked them they gave me a funny look. Go figure! Short of that I will explore ferns as well for some of the rock cracks. Nighttime lighting has been a blast for those considering it, and pictures do not do it justice. The two in the water pick up the ripples on the water surface and project a wavy light on the rock. I have been playing around with buying led's in bulk and making my own lightd for the falls but the incandescent ones seem to be the best effect so far. Still going to play with different set-ups and eventually have everything tied into my existing program.

Offline turtlemike

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2009, 05:01:01 PM »
I don't know if this will help or not.  I'm no expert on growing moss on rocks in water gardens but I have an idea or two that might help.    
       First of all I think that possibly the type of rock might be very important. I have limestone boulders in the woods around my hayfield that the old timers cleared out of the field 100 or more years ago.  These rocks have no moss growing on them, ever.  no mater where I find one, north slope, damp conditions, rocks all around covered in moss.    
 They are easy to spot in the woods because they're the bare rocks with no moss on them.
       At the other extreme I was taking the scenic route through the woods and saw this rock that was so completely and beautifully covered with this tight dense short moss of only one species that I had to stop and caress it and photograph it. It almost didn't have a square in. of uncovered surface. No other rocks in the area had moss like this. Lots of moss of different types on other rocks but never completely covered. There is definitely something special about this rock as far as that particular species of moss is concerned. I believe it's a sandstone rock from up the hill that came down in a land slide and rolled down the hill.
       This makes me think that different species of moss like different kinds of rocks to grow on. This leads me to imagine landscaping a waterfall or rocky area with different kinds of rocks that will grow certain mosses best, mixed with rocks that won't grow moss at all. The mix of rocks each with it's best moss for it should make a self maintaining segregated mix of mosses and un-mossed, is that a word, rocks.
        Another idea I have is about starting moss on rocks, either from spores or transplanting. I have read about growing moss in containers of potting mix buy sprinkling spores on the damp surface covered with plastic in a non sunny window. I can imagine, especially on a rough rock like sandstone that you could take some potting mix and smear a thin layer into the pores of the stone, just a few millimeters thick, wet or dry.  I'm thinking wet mix on a damp rock might be best.  I think that this thin layer of soil between the moss and the rock, just like the soil that moss creates and holds between the rock and itself in nature will help a lot in getting newly transplanted moss or spores to attach to the rock and grow well.
      Another idea is to fertilize the moss by sprinkling some very fine compost or soil into established moss on rocks and brushing it  into the moss with your hand and then watering it in. In nature things are always falling into moss, building up it's soil layer and fertilizing it. This soil layer evens out wet and dry periods and prevents the moss from dying to much in very dry times.
     Dry times are helpful for moss to maintain its domination of it's rock or log. Rocks especially are hostile to seedlings simply because there is no soil layer to hold water.  practically any seed will sprout and try to grow on a rock if you keep a mister on it all of the time. but if you let that sprout dry out for 5 minuets it will probably die. Moss is actually quite resistant to dry conditions, as long as it's not TO dry for TO long.  I am quite sure that the moss covered rock that I described was very dry during the drought of 07, 88, 99, and on and on back in time. I believe the moss on that rock has been there for more than 100 years because there are at least 200 year old trees growing over it and I think it would take a hot sun during a drought to kill or prevent it from growing. The rock of course has been there for thousands of years, and maybe the moss with it. My idea is that a tree seedling growing in the moss on top of this rock, that is maybe 10 years old and still is only 8 or 10 in. high, with equally long roots would not survive one of these droughts, that the moss apparently survived, along with all of the other moss in the area that lives on rocks. This keeps the moss weeded, so less competition.

     Of course various mosses have various ability to withstand dryness I am sure there are mosses in rain forests that cant be dry at all.  And I know that pillow moss is the most dry resistant moss around here, and it needs a dry hot rocky windy ridge to grow on.
Here's a pic of that beautiful green rock I was talking about.     The turtle is just cute!

Offline Johns

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2009, 05:03:53 PM »
Whiskyb,

Re: moss on your rocks:

Collect some moss from the woods.  Find some that is growing on moist rocks if possible.  Clean all the dirt off the moss and place about a cupful in a blender.  Add two cups REAL buttermilk (Not the fat-free kind), and blend well.
Paint this mixture on the rocks you want moss on and maintain moisture without washing off the mixture. Process may take a few months.  Repeat treatment as often as you can until you have the desired result.

Offline turtlemike

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #15 on: June 01, 2009, 05:12:22 PM »
Wow Johns thats cool, Does that happen from spores or just plant cells and peices.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2009, 05:42:57 PM by turtlemike »

Offline reddad35

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2009, 05:22:06 PM »
I saw a mixture on TV where they used Johns recipe except they used yougurt instead of buttermilk. Painted it on just the same though. Neat stuff. That green rock is great.

TurtleMike, When I come in July to visit are you going to have any hidden smaller rocks like that one? I might just dig and roll on the tractor a bit longer for one of those. lol

Offline Julles

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2009, 05:30:52 PM »
Well, Johns and RedDad both beat me to the buttermilk and yogurt plan for growing moss.

Mike, that is a wonderful rock you found, to be sure.  Look like it belongs in a foggy 'shire in Great Britain.

Speaking of such... maybe traditional moss is not what you're looking for, Whiskey.  At Home Depot recently, I saw some low ground covers called Irish Moss and Scotch Moss - one was lime green and one was regular green; can't remember which is which.  But since they are ground covers and not regular moss, perhaps they would give the same or similar desired effect, but be easier to find and get started growing. 


http://www.hostas.com/images/perennials/sagina-subulata-aurea-scotch-moss.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HjIkTFqBD0o/RgqlaYao-KI/AAAAAAAAAPA/K0SLBSWptGE/s400/scotch+moss2.jpg

Offline turtlemike

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #18 on: June 01, 2009, 05:41:05 PM »
Yes Reddad35 I love that rock, or that moss,or both together.
     You coming in July?

Offline tootsie

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #19 on: June 01, 2009, 06:21:11 PM »
WOW, very nice waterfall and the way you layered the rocks O0

Offline whiskyb

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #20 on: June 01, 2009, 07:07:22 PM »
Wow, thanks for those tips Mike and Johns. I am definitely going to try that recipe. I'll check out Home depot as well for a few other ideas. I can do some experimenting this year and then next year the winner gets to take over. My wife would of loved a few of those turtles until she found out they eat fish. We stocked our pond with 100 feeder goldfish last year and still have a majority of them as well as some young ones. Frogs come and go,lots of toads and a few unwanted herons.

Offline ponderer

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #21 on: June 02, 2009, 01:48:05 PM »
Moss just "appears" at our pond . I usually pull some off, it gets so thick. Of course , this is New Englang. Acid soil ya know.

Offline PondmaninAL

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Re: Introduction/need advice
« Reply #22 on: June 02, 2009, 06:50:41 PM »
Mike, it's been a while since I've seen a Eastern Box turtle and never that small. I have seen a baby one but it didn't have the pattern yet.
Happy ponding,
Scott o(


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