Author Topic: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??  (Read 1523 times)

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Offline Julles

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EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« on: June 30, 2009, 03:44:46 PM »
My friend who was trampled by the horse, it took 25 minutes for an ambulance to arrive (one did come sooner, but it had to take care of a cardiac arrest at the same parade).  After the medics tended to her at the curb, they had her walk across a 4 lane street to the ambulance, and then had her sit herself on the stretcher.  They did have her head and legs in straps, but no backboard.

Now, isn't that strange, do you think, considering she was knocked to the ground by a horse, and had teeth kicked out and a big bang on the back of her head?  We know now it was wrong for the bystanders to have gotten her up into a chair, but after that, shouldn't the medics have brought the stretcher to her?  And why no backboard?


Offline Kittyzee

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 05:49:59 PM »
I don't know the protocol in the city where this occured.  Each department does things differently.  Also, not all fire departments have paramedics....some are EMT basics.  Anyway, I know that in our department, the medic would have gotten as close to her as possible and the stretcher would have come to her.  For her privacy, she would have been moved inside of the medic where she could be stabalized and worked on, cleaned up, etc. (assessed) probably had an IV administered and off to the hospital she would go.  If she had been in severe trauma, a helicopter would have been called and the medic would have gone to a staging area where it could land safely.
LuAnn

There are things you do because they feel right & they may make no sense & they may make no money & it may be the real reason we are here:  to love each other & to eat each other's cooking & say it was good.  ~  Brian Andreas 

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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2009, 04:19:42 AM »
They were complete idiots and risked causing her further injury. She should have been totally spinal immobilized on the spot on a backboard with a cervical collar and spider straps. Moving her at all, much less making her walk could have caused paralysis if she had a sharp piece of broken vertebrae near her spinal column. Not wanting to just get the medics in trouble but in order to keep these numbskulls from harming anyone in the future, she should report this to Houston’s EMS supervision.


Never leave your partner, especially in a fire.

Offline cindy

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2009, 12:28:16 PM »
They were complete idiots and risked causing her further injury. She should have been totally spinal immobilized on the spot on a backboard with a cervical collar and spider straps. Moving her at all, much less making her walk could have caused paralysis if she had a sharp piece of broken vertebrae near her spinal column. Not wanting to just get the medics in trouble but in order to keep these numbskulls from harming anyone in the future, she should report this to Houston’s EMS supervision.

Does the fire dept there not have emt/paramedics?  I saw the pics of them walking her and couldn't believe it.  Not in your state but 25 minutes at a huge event sounds ridiculous. 

Offline Bullfrog

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2009, 01:21:23 PM »
They require the firefighters to have a minimum Basic EMT course which is the entry level of emergency medicine. I'm not belittling EMTs  by any means and EMTs have it drilled into their heads for weeks how to stabilize a possible spinal injury. I can only speak for Beaumont, Texas. When they decided that a pumper would reespond to all EMS calls because there were more firefighters than medics and they were usually closer, they demanded that all firefighters have a minimum Basic EMT course. There are two higher levels, the EMT Intermediate and the Paramedic.

They gave them 2 weeks to complete what should be a six month course. I was teaching at a local college at the time and a Lt. from the fire department called me and asked me if I could teach that night and I agreed. I asked him what the topic was and he said "medical emergencies." I said OK and hung up.

I thought about it for a moment and called him back. Medical emergencies is everything that is not trauma. I said "You mean you want me to teach diabetic emergencies, anaphalaxis, CVA, cardiac emergencies, respiratory emergencies, emergent childbirth with abnormal presentations, drug overdoses, poisoning, heat related injuries, obstructed airways, seizures, eclampsia, drowning, chemical exposures and everything else in just four hours?"

"They only get two weeks, just hit the highlights, they can read their books at the station." He said.

There is a whole lot that isn't in the book and I could spend weeks on cardiac emergencies alone, but the budget said two weeks. One of the important lessons that you learn is not in the book. You get called to a house at night with a fence and a gate, the porch light is on and they are expecting you. Rattle that gate loudly and wait a minute. If not, you may wind up loosing some tender parts of your anatomy to a Pitt Bull.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2009, 01:32:34 PM by Bullfrog »


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Offline Desertponder

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2009, 10:17:49 AM »
Hmmmmm, without being there its really hard to say what circumstances played into the incident.
As mentioned, local protocols are different from one place to the next.
In our county, a Paramedic can clear C-spine in the field. I's and B's cannot.
Our department will often walk people to the gurney if they are able depending on the illness/injury. We are told if the patient is at all able to walk to the gurney or the ambulance to by all means do it rather than to risk our backs and injury.
However, it does seem rather strange that in this case they did not take the gurney to the patient. I'm not sure what their reasons for not doing so would be. They should have.
If the patient is not complaining of any back or neck pain and the type of injury doesn't really warrant backboarding then no, a patient would not necessarily be backboarded.
The decision is based on mechanism of injury, the type of fall - how far, etc., is the patient complaining of back/neck pain, etc.
I've been on calls where my ALS member has wanted to backboard someone and I personally did not see the need for it. I've also been on calls where my ALS person did not backboard someone and I felt that they should be. The decision is usually up to ALS person on scene. If Basics are running with no ALS then it should be an automatic immobilization, but that's my county protocols.
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Offline Bullfrog

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2009, 03:03:52 AM »
It's the same here Shanna and C-Spine immobillization can be overdone at times. But, she got kicked hard enough to loose some teeth so there was possible neck trauma, I would have brought the stretcher to her and backboarded her in this case. I'm a paramedic and I can clear C-Spine at the scene but in a case like this I would have done it just to be sure.


Never leave your partner, especially in a fire.

Offline Desertponder

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2009, 12:19:12 PM »
Yes, sounds like they should have definitely brought the gurney to her and immobilized if that was the case.  :)
I would be curious to know why they did not.
Could be some butts in the wringer on that one. ::)
Shanna
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Offline lorraine1960

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Re: EMS Question ... Bullfrog & Others??
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 04:04:10 PM »
yes they should of spinally immobilized her from the start with a c-collar and spine bhoard....should be protocol....and put her on the stretcher and moved the ambulance or had police stop traffic...i am a retired paramedic and this could be a neglegence call..  lorraine  any kind of fall is considered head injury..and emt basics and firefighters should all have this training.....
lorraine

 

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