Author Topic: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!  (Read 5692 times)

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Offline kitfoxdrvr

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So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« on: August 07, 2009, 10:27:37 AM »
I have had several people request I post some pictures of my pond, maybe some are interested in rocks again, or maybe I am being setup for another one of those threads that the forum police hate??!!   {-)  lol

Boy, when I had this pond built back in 2006, I was totally uneducated about the rock controversy.  I had kept aquaria for many years, and had never considered that the deep substrate at the bottom of my tanks was killing my fish (even the discus that spawned on a weekly basis  :-\).  Now that I have 55 tons of rock in and around my 7,000 gallons (metered) of water, I realize the error in my ways.  I guess it just does not work having stones in your water.   {nono}

This pond is really two ponds, one fed by a "skippy" that is supplied by a 10,000 gph pump.  It feeds into the lower, main pond, that is also fed by a stream flowing from an upflow bog fed by a 6,000 gph pump.  Both pumps are in a large skimmer on the main, lower pond.

The skippy and bog combine to keep the poisonous concoction caused by the rocks to still have crystal clarity, with Ammonia, Nitrite AND Nitrate readings of zero during the summer months (barely measurable nitrates when the bog plants go dormant during the fall), and a ph of around 8.5.  I have never had green water, but do have string algae, but not severe.  I am sure someone could smell all the stinky rock stuff, but my nose has not detected any yet!   >:(-

The ponds house 15 various size adult koi and 10 babies from last year's spawn.  There are also potted lilies and lilies planted in the substrate gravel (you know, the hydrogen sulfide factory!) as well as a lot of elodea.  I trimmed the elodea severely this year so I would not have so many babies-the koi used it for a spawning mat.

The largest koi is a butterfly kikokuryu, that was purchased the fall the pond was built at 8" and is now 20" (butterflies are measured without the tail, she is really almost 25" long).  The highest quality is a kohaku I bought from Lotusland Koi Farm and is part of a growout over on Koiphen.  She is now 13", and a little over a year old.  She won a blue ribbon at the Carolina Classic Young Koi Show as best kohaku in size this past fall.  There are a lot of mutts too, but time for me to shut up and show some pictures of my rotten egg cesspool, so here they are:

The main pond:



The upper pool:



The waterfall flowing into the upper pool:



The waterfall from the upper pool into the main pond:



The creek from the bog coming into the main pond (the pennisetum is a volunteer, it sure likes that spot!):



The bog and the creek flowing out of it (second pic) from this spring when you could still see the bog and the Gamecock Irises were blooming:





The landscape behind the ponds and between the two creeks from this spring.  The rock in the foreground weighs 5,000 lbs and turned over a skidsteer that tried to move it!   :o:



Industrial waste from the rocks(actually organics from a koi spawn!  ;D):



The fish in the four foot deep end-note the gravel at the bottom!  {:-P;;, the kohaku near the center is the blue ribbon Lotusland fish:



And more fishies, including the original kikokuryu (white and black):





And finally, some "cool" pics of the quagmire:





Hope noone is too offended by all the rocks, I hope to have them all removed shortly after MY demise!!!  lol

Steve

« Last Edit: August 07, 2009, 10:36:15 AM by kitfoxdrvr »

Offline tinkster

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2009, 10:57:50 AM »
Let me be the first to post just how dispicable all those rocks are so that we can get this thread off to a good start!  Dispicable, dispicable and words cannot describe how dispicable it is to have ponds that pretty, clear and of course  we cannot leave out the most dispicable part is all those rocks.

The most dispicable part of it all is you have way more  rocks than me.   I already have plans to remedy that though.  I have plans of a trip to nc again in september witha truck to bring home some of the huge pile of granite I was given......LOVE your ponds.

tink

Offline Joyce

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2009, 11:17:55 AM »
I love YOUR rocks Steve!  o(:-)  lol   :P
Peace to all  ... Joyce



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It will never fail you.”
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Offline bunny56lbc

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2009, 11:25:23 AM »
I love the rocks all around & in u're pond ,Steve  o(:-)
Even tho I don't have rocks in my ponds...only reason is they costs too much $$$ .
Tho I could go to the creek & hand pick my own but then that can be a back breaking job too .

bonnie

Offline Johns

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2009, 11:46:45 AM »
Your rocks are older than dirt!!!  Nice pond, nice garden, beautiful showcase.

Offline miguynmkoi

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2009, 12:01:18 PM »
What the........ &-)  How did your pond survive rocks?!?!  You were hiding your pond for the last of your AP days!

I'm azounds by the beauty of your pond and the garden landscape.  Beautifully designed falls and stream.  Love your lucky fishies.  All I can say is you better post more photos before we get up in arms about your rocks!!!

 @O@ Your pond rocks!   8-)~

Offline kitfoxdrvr

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2009, 12:07:10 PM »
Thank you Joyce, Bonnie, Johns and Annette, but especially thank you Tink!!!   o(:-)  You came up with the word I was trying to remember for my post, it was on the tip of my tongue...


DESPICABLE !!!   lol  Describes a pond with rocks perfectly, thanks!  >:(-

Steve

Offline mondotomhead

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2009, 12:49:05 PM »
You know, I was trying to match what you were saying to what I was seeing and couldn't figure it out until I realized this was sarcasm :redface: 

I posted something that worked out great for my pond on another website and started a "posting war" I'm sure that was similar to your rock posting.  I still cringe when I think about it. 

Anyway, what a absolutely beautiful pond.  I hope someday to get my plants growing close to the water and falling over the despicable(!) rocks like yours does.  And fabulous fish too.

Offline Holldoll

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2009, 01:06:28 PM »
BEAUTIFUL!  Like someone else said, I wish I had rocks like that, but they are too expensive! 

Offline kitfoxdrvr

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2009, 01:12:24 PM »
You know, I was trying to match what you were saying to what I was seeing and couldn't figure it out until I realized this was sarcasm :redface: 

I posted something that worked out great for my pond on another website and started a "posting war" I'm sure that was similar to your rock posting.  I still cringe when I think about it. 

Anyway, what a absolutely beautiful pond.  I hope someday to get my plants growing close to the water and falling over the despicable(!) rocks like yours does.  And fabulous fish too.

I threatened in another thread to copy and paste my original post over at Koiphen to see what would happen!  I know what you went through!!!  It seems the peeps here are a little more open to other ways of doing things (USUALLY, ANYWAY!!!  lol)

Steve

Offline ponderer

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2009, 01:55:35 PM »
You ROCK! Your ponds do too.

Offline Jonna

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2009, 03:41:36 PM »
I agree, your pond ROCKS!  It is just beautiful!  Whatever those rocks are doing they are doing it right. 

I have several boulders in and around my pond, the rest is concrete which is a kind of rock too right?  I've always though Cliff and Joanne's pond is one of the most beautiful I've seen pictures of and they also have rocks.  I guess it is just one of those preference things, some like them and some don't.  Too bad those that don't feel they have to justify it with such vigor. 

Keep posting those pictures, I think it is a good way to get rocks out of our heads.   ::)

Offline HOWELL

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2009, 04:31:00 PM »
As I have said it before your pond is absoluteley awesome.... @O@
I would be in heaven if I was near to it...BTW keep those pics coming.....and remember we had a deal about me having a pond such as beautiful as yours... O0
Scott I'll miss you buddy... :(

Offline cricket67

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #13 on: August 07, 2009, 05:30:02 PM »
WoW...everything is really beautiful....rocks always did make a pond look better.....and yours look really awesome..... O0.... o(:-)

Offline KatFish

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2009, 05:31:36 PM »
Uh, oh...  this is getting rocky  {nono}  Seriously tho - I love your pond  o(:-)

Offline jw

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2009, 05:49:21 PM »
Rocks really look great in there and your pics are all terrific  :D.

Offline mcp

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2009, 06:33:05 PM »
Absolutely LOVE your rocky pond. Thanks so much for sharing. Hope to see more of your awful rocks. :)
McKean County Pa. zone 5

Offline sooks

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2009, 09:14:42 AM »
Your pond is STUNNING. Thanks for the inspiration! o(:-)
"The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched. They must be felt within the heart. "  ...Helen Keller

Offline LeeAnne151

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2009, 12:50:26 PM »
Your pond is absolutely gorgeous. IF I had a big enough yard, I'd build one just like it in a heartbeat.

I've had rocks on the bottom of my fish pond for twelve years with no problems at all. No green water either except one year when I pulled up too much anacharis. I hate that people (on multiple forums, take your pick) always tell new ponders that they must get rid of their rocks or kill their fish. I think it is hogwash. I had original ten year old feeder goldfish until a kingfisher or heron got them two winters ago.

Helen Nash has rocks with plants growing in them in her pond books, that is where I got the idea. Been totally fine for me......
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Offline Jerry

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2009, 02:32:17 PM »
Looks very natural. Just beautiful.
How mant gallons?
Jerry
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Offline Julles

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2009, 07:08:34 PM »
Steve, do you also have rocks on the bottom?  Is that what starts the controversy?  Because I sure don't see how anyone could object to the rocks framing the outside of the pond.

Also, can you explain what you meant about chemical problems caused by the rocks? 

Offline LeeAnne151

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2009, 03:59:25 PM »
They say that rocks on the bottom cause a buildup of toxic gasses that will stink and kill your fish. Have read it over and over on many forums but am still waiting for it to happen here.
~LeeAnne~

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Offline Missa

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2009, 04:39:58 PM »
Do you clean the bottom?
If so, how?


Just curious.

Offline LeeAnne151

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2009, 06:00:48 PM »
Are you asking me?

Mostly, no, I don't clean the bottom. There are so many plants growing in the rocks that using the shop vac is a real pain in the rear. We've had some bad storms that dropped major debris and I do try to get the big stuff out but we do not drain the pond and pressure wash, ever.

No skimmer and no bottom drain either.
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Offline kitfoxdrvr

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #24 on: August 10, 2009, 06:24:06 AM »
Do you clean the bottom?
If so, how?


Just curious.

Pretty much what Leeanne says.  I actually snorkle in my pond, and carry a large aquarium net and scoop out all of the large debris.  I net the pond for a few months in the fall to keep most of the leaves out, but try not to leave them on long because the birds hate not being able to get to the water!  The major thing that I do is once a year, I drain the two sections (one per weekend) to rinse the rocks off and get any loose mulm out.  I have had surprisingly little, even at a feeding rate of over 40 pounds of Blackwater Creek Max per month.  But I need to do it anyway to divide the lilies planted in the substrate and replace lights, cull fish, etc.  I truely believe that having plants and their roots in the substrate-in my case, lilies, elodea, cattails, and lots of marginals suck the mulm up as fast as the koi can deliver it.   @O@

Jerry:

7,000 gallons total in the two pools and the bog.

Julles:

Leeanne is also correct on the poisonous gasses.  Many have built ponds like this and have had problems with mulm building up in the gravel at the bottom in areas where oxygen is depleted (anaerobic zones).  Certain types of bacteria grow in these areas that feed on the mulm and do not require oxygen, but one of their waste products is Hydrogen Sulfide, which is gas that is highly soluble in water, and also highly poisonous to fish.  The argument the koi experts make is that you don't get enough to kill them, just stress them, making them susceptible to parasites and diseases that also lurk in the mulm.  Sort of a deadly double whammy!   ;D  Sounds bad, huh?  Well, I have had two cases of ulcers on my fish two years ago, and both were cured.  I have had no problems since, and my water parameters are great.

I do a 10% water change per week by flow through.  This is very low for a koi pond.  To keep my changes this low (my wife runs the finance department in our town, which is over the water department!  {nono}, so I am not allowed to waste water!), I do use a controversial water treatment to keep organics low in the water column-I do weekly treatments with potassium permanganate, a VERY strong oxidizer.  I will not pretend to be an expert on its use, go over to koiphen and search this and "Roddy Conrad".  He is an expert.  It is dangerous to you and the fish if used improperly, but is great for cleaning out growth-limiting organics in the water that filtration will not touch.  Most water municipal water departments have this stuff in their arsenals, and you have most likely drank water treated with it, so not to be feared, just respected.

Steve

Offline pondlady

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #25 on: August 10, 2009, 07:32:18 AM »
I have read many posts on rock bottom ponds as well as had one myself :'(, If was a cesspool. Having said that I believe that the important thing in the rock pond is water movement. Mine was not enough so things wen bad in there. I do not have large pumps and filter systems just small pond side ones. I believe it is up to the ponder to decide what and how they do there ponds, But if you have or are going to use a rock bottom then be sure you have the pumps to keep things moving. Everything does better with more oxygen and this is where the water flow comes into play. That pond look totally natural and the flow rate is obvious. Great job and great pond.  8-)~as you can see mine are very slow ponds. Can not aford bigger pumps and filters with cancer eating up Dh. So we make do. Someday maybe???
I thought that I was wrong once,But I was mistaken. hehehehehe

Offline kitfoxdrvr

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #26 on: August 10, 2009, 07:51:49 AM »
Pondlady:

You hit the key IMHO.  I am turning mine over twice an hour, and not much has a chance to settle.  And you are correct also about cost, the pumps are expensive and the electricity is not free, either.  In fact. I am saving now to change to external pumps; much more efficient and will pay for themselves in electricity savings in a year!   @O@

Prayers going out for your husband.    o(:-)

Steve

Offline Jane

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #27 on: August 10, 2009, 03:56:41 PM »
Wow!  Your pond is gorgeous!!!!  I haven't posted in a long, long time, but, peeked at the forum today and saw the pics of your pond, prettiest pond I've seen in a while and had to let you know how beautiful and natural I thought it was.

Loved your dog too!  I have a Rough Collie and thought you had the same, but, after looking again I believe it's a Sheltie?

Offline kitfoxdrvr

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #28 on: August 11, 2009, 04:30:08 AM »
Glad I got to pull you out of the category of lurkers, Jane!  Thanks for the wonderful comments! I really love my Sheltie and will likely always have one...great, intelligent dogs, and wonderful companions. Rough collies are a favorite as well, they are just BIG!

Steve

Offline Joyce

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Re: So, Tell Me How You Really Feel About Rocks!
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2009, 09:52:30 AM »
Jane!!!  @O@ How are you Jane?  ?)(?
Peace to all  ... Joyce



Breast Cancer Survivor

“Study nature, love nature, stay close to nature.
It will never fail you.”
Frank Lloyd Wright

 

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